Book Chapter 10

 Chapter 10- Church House, Manse, Home and moving

I have come to the view that if a church/circuit/ cannot maintain the house for the minister you cannot afford the Minister.

In talking with some colleagues we once joked that it would be a good idea to produce a good manse guide, however we just never got round to it. Perhaps one day! 

The manse is crucial because it’s both your home, and partly your work place even if you have an office in a church building. When you get up in a morning you are already at your work place and you do need to feel comfortable there. And it’s the home for your family. You need to determine how open the home will be to the wider church community. In an ideal world they would all be four bedroom houses with separate downstairs study situated near the front of the house so people do not have to traipse through your home, or it could have a separate entrance. That however is the ideal and many are not like that at all. Of the four manses we have lived in they have all had advantages and disadvantages, but all have become our home. The first had the best sized study, and as with the second were located by the front door. Two manses had down stairs toilets the others did not so people had to go upstairs not ideal. All four had lousy kitchens. The first got sorted due to dry rot after having lived with it for a few years. The second got sorted just before we left our second appointment. The third we insisted was done straightaway. When you move in on the day and find yourself cutting out a work surface to put your fridge in place it’s no joke. The circuit stewards wife comment was her husband wouldn’t be keen to get it done. My wife’s comment was Mark will insist. I did and after five months the new one was in. It’s your home. 

Many of the problems facing the minister and their family will stem from how well the circuit maintains the manse and their willingness to get things done when required. It took till my third appointment to have a supportive circuit in that respect; assisted by the fact I was the superintendent and no longer willing to put up with things. This is not a matter of wanting luxury. It’s about good stewardship of God’s property and helping to create an environment that while you are there it is your home, and that includes the garden. Where ever we have lived we have seen it as home, our home, even though we know we will leave it one day. In our younger days we would do the decorating ourselves and put up sometimes with things we should not have to. When we were both working full time and partly because in the end it’s not our house, we had decorators in. 

Thankfully when we entered into the ministry it was no longer in the days when manse furniture was provided. I do however remember as a child my parents going round to help clean the manse ready for the next minister, and saw the rubbish some ministers and their families had to put up with. When we moved into our first manse all our furniture literally fitted into my parent’s garage. The removal men offered to put the car on board as well! When we came to move after 25 years on into our fourth manse it was a very large removal van that took us, plus plants. We had them do the packing. Having your own furniture does not mean however the manse is cared for properly.

As a soon to be a newly married couple we visited our first manse after being told where I was being sent from college. We were made welcome. We had had read on the circuits form they wanted ‘an older minister with a wife who got on with people’. You wouldn’t be allowed to write that in these more PC days. Staying at the manse overnight with the current minister and furniture in the manse all seemed okay. We really did not take in the state of the place. Now looking at the manse is near the top of our priorities. A visit to Hull on one occasion to look at a post is the classic case of alarm bells going off. They left the visit to the manse till early evening when it was already dark. They could not hide the interior which was appalling in decor, layout and just about in every way. Strange how the circuit steward lived in a lovely house, she did not seem to realise that it mattered. So even though the appointment was a challenge and tempting it would have required a new manse and that was not going to happen.

  When we moved into our first manse we quickly found all was not right. The front room floor covering was made up of strips of carpet; windows were old metal and rusted with glass always breaking which I repaired. Our heating costs were astronomical so much so we had to ask for help from the district one year towards the cost. The Kitchen would have failed a hygiene inspection. The cooker under the old fire place which was not properly sealed meant bits would fall down, yes into the cooking. We wondered why we were so often ill! 

It took a while to really register the issues of the manse and when we did we faced the age old problem of getting the circuit to deal with the issues. Some of the old mentality was around that second best will do for the manse, throwing out an old carpet! Well let’s put it in the manse. My wife began to make new curtains and so we were always out of pocket getting the money back later. Now I would make sure of the money before expenditure or insist on my receipts being refunded immediately. What really hurt was when we did ask the senior circuit steward for the money for the study curtains and to have some made. ‘Why do you need them’ he asked in his pompous way ‘because they are full of holes’!  His view which emerged was because we were young we should not expect anything. It is our home and in our home we don’t have holes in our curtains.

That first manse was to prove a real learning curve and why I insist on our manses being looked after properly. One day early on it was really raining hard. We came home to find two stewards putting a polystyrene egg carton to link a broken drain pipe. That said everything about the shoddy way the manse had been and was being maintained. A refusal to spend was to cost them dear. The day I opened a cupboard in my study looking for something was the day I found the rampant dry rot. Great mushrooms growing and by the time it was all dealt with £46,000 was spent. My wife had always complained about the smell in the study ‘honestly I do wash’.  So as the minister living in the manse or looking at one here are some points to note.  

• Airbricks had been allowed to become overgrown and blocked so no natural airflow to keep things dry and sound.
• Drains were broken by a tree too close to the house and that helped to feed the rot. 
• In the records we found the minute that showed they had in the past found dry rot in the kitchen and a general builder had taken a bit of wood out and treated the area. 

And so it went on...

Not dealing with anything right just caused the whole of the downstairs to be gutted as plaster and soil was taken away. At least my wife got to choose her own floor boards. How many ministers’ spouses get that opportunity!  We had to leave the manse initially living with parents and then with a church member. Finally it became clear we had to be re-housed. But this in itself caused trouble. Not able to find anywhere they said; well they would because they didn’t want to spend money. So I went out to a letting agency and found a property straightaway. Then got the contract and gave it to the circuit steward to sign. Even then he came into youth club asking me why and got short shrift. It has to be said in fairness they were overwhelmed by the experience. They had lost sight of their responsibility for a family, and we had a young daughter at this stage. The result of this meant I learnt about wet rot, dry rot, soffit boards, fascia boards, electrics, gas pipes, drains etc. As the whole house was gutted and restored we discovered a catalogue of badly carried out work from the past. So we had at last a manse that was decent, warm, well decorated and a new kitchen. 

So don’t put up with a lousy home. A church or circuit that cannot afford to maintain its manse can’t afford the minister!

From the outset we have wanted to use our home as a means of offering hospitality while balanced alongside it being a family home. This means for us inviting people for meals which really does help to get to know people and creates a more relaxed friendship. We have used our home regularly for house groups, small church meetings, interviewing couples for marriage etc. We have when required given a home to people. I have to say that this is a tricky area, especially when they seem to want to stay forever. We once had to drop big hints and rang up places to buy or let in the local press to get one individual to move on. One thing I would not be happy with is allowing people to think they can just wander into the manse, it is our home.

Moving we are told is one of the most stressful things you can do in life. Ministers are expected to do it fairly frequently. It is a big thing and not always appreciated by the church people. Just because you have agreed to become a minister with the understanding that you will from time to time move on, does not make it any easier. Yes other people have to move with their jobs, and that can be traumatic, so you cannot make out you’re the only one. The Methodist system of everyone moving at the same time and the process of invitation does make it a unique and troubling time. Because of the time scale for sorting out appointments you will be thinking about whether you want to stay or go a good year before your decision needs to be made. This is unsettling not just for you but the family. But then so will the circuit be thinking about do they want you to stay or go? Hopefully if you have a good working relationship with the circuit leadership team you will get an indication one way or another, but at the end of the day it rests with the vote of the circuit meeting. A meeting that is made up of folk from all the churches of the circuit. If you are a minister in a large circuit you may not know them or they you that well. Yet here are a group of people that have your future and your family in their hands/power. Some people in the church don’t realise that the manse is not your house. They think your children and your wife can just up and move even though they would never dream of doing the same. No matter how good you are about it, going to that meeting when they will be voting, was a difficult and stressful time. On asking for an extension of two years on one occasion, one person did vote against, and while it didn’t change anything it does rile that someone either doesn’t like you or they just wanted to make a point and you are left wondering who was it? With the passing of the years I would say to have annoyed someone is not a bad thing. Thankfully you now know before the meeting if you will be invited on but the process itself remains stressful.

So to the decision you have to make. How do you know when to stay and how do you know which appointment to accept?

My first appointment was made for me as I was sent out as a probationer minister to St Ives in Cambridgeshire. I was a bit taken a back when on visiting the superintendent, John started the conversation with ‘if we choose to accept you’. Now I know in reality they had no choice, otherwise they would not have had a minister sent, but then it was upsetting. People really do need to be careful with their words. For me the appointment not without its ups and downs was a great time. We saw a main church grow becoming all age instead of an ageing and declining congregation. We saw a Junior church grow (see section on youth work), we were able to build up from scratch three youth clubs, house group of real strength (see section on house groups), work with young people around the circuit saw exciting youth services, trips to MAYC London Weekend etc. It was a great learning experience. We made friends and enjoyed living and working in the community and two of our three daughters were born there. So to move or not to move after five years was the question. Now there are those who feel its right to move on after five having learnt from your mistakes and take on a new appointment. That would be wonderful if it meant you never made other mistakes!!  Well clearly you have to reflect seriously on the situation and pray about it. Why would you want to leave? Why would you want to stay? Is there work still to be done that you have a contribution to make? We decided that it was right to stay and the circuit agreed to a further two years. We continued to see growth and in hindsight I believe we did do what God wanted. Essentially we stayed because it felt there was still work to be done.

The longer you stay in a place the harder it can become to move. Your house becomes cluttered with belongings and who wants to sort everything out! You feel comfortable with what you are doing and you know how everything works more or less. People generally are happy with you and you become their minister. But you know it can’t go on forever and you need to stay fresh and challenged yourself. The longer you stay the danger is you become less objective and you become part of the problem of change as much as the church community. So we determined it was right to move on after the seven years. This brought about the really hard choice of where to move to. Bear in mind Methodist ministers all move at the same time so it feels like a real shuffling of the cards. The church at that time had decided that to make the system work better, ministers could look at five appointments at any one time and a circuit could look at five ministers at any one time. Of course that works okay if the supply of ministers is enough for the appointments on offer, but throughout my ministry there has always been a short fall.

So determining where to go was a priority. Having served in a circuit based in a section with a market town church with four small chapels I felt I should look for a different type of context. So my travels took me to Watford where two churches of fairly similar size awaited. One had voted overwhelmingly to get rid of its last minister while the other had voted overwhelmingly the other way. So how would I fair in the tug for the ministers time and attention? The manse was okay apart from the minister having allowed his children pets to run freely throughout the manse destroying carpets etc (it’s not just about circuits looking after manses ministers have a responsibility to). While made to feel welcome it didn’t feel right. A trip to Leeds and a small inner city circuit again did not feel right at that stage and I just could not see myself living there. A visit to Bradford and three churches was interesting but again not right. I had started the whole process by a visit to what was then the Leigh-on Sea circuit on the advice of my chair, and without doubt that coloured all my other visits. It was an appointment to a large suburban church and one small chapel down in the old town of Leigh. It had much to commend it with its existing children and young people’s work so I wouldn’t be starting from scratch. The balance of my time would clearly be at the larger church while giving me a small chapel to run away to. On paper there were lots of lay leadership and people in their late 30’ and early 40’s. I was clearly drawn to the appointment and the manse was a good one! My visit there was a good one, even going out for fish and chips at a local restaurant helped to give it a sense of normality, and yes I could work with these people. What did I have to offer? Well Of course I was young with a young family!! 

The process was tough. You had to go through all these visits in a very tight time frame from the morning when the phone started ringing from circuits. I think I had at least forty calls, and I had to select five. There were funny moments, not least on the Sunday morning when three of the circuits decided they would come and visit to hear me preach. So in the congregation were the stewards from Leigh, then a group from Watford and another group from a large church in Bedford. My congregation thought it was funny. Following the service the church stewards entertained the Watford group as I had already spent time with them. Back at the manse I held court with the Bedford group in the front room, while the Leigh lot sat in the garden with my wife until I came out to them. The Bedford lot were in my view far too full of themselves. Their church was very large and they far too big headed for my liking, not that they invited me to go there, and if they had I wouldn’t have gone. In the end it felt right to go to Leigh on Sea. Though we in fact stayed only five years, and they were often tough years, I still feel it was right that we went there, because that was where God wanted us to be then. We choose to leave after the five years for many reasons, but chief among them were our daughters, three of them by now, all ready to move on in their schooling. The eldest to secondary, the middle junior and the youngest, Essex born no jokes please, to start school. So from their perspective it was the right time to move on. You really do need to take your children’s needs into account, for their happiness naturally impacts on yours. As for me. It was right to move on because the main church had been hard work in holding people together and I needed a change in direction. There was much to celebrate about our five years there; youth work in particular and the fact that in the changing world the church had not declined during my watch. It was to be a relief to relinquish pastoral responsibility for the church. So on this occasion the question of whether people wanted us to stay or go did not arise. It was ironic that it was there we made some very strong friendships who remain friends to this day.

So having served in two different appointments the search was again for something new and challenging. This time when the phone rang on the allotted day we were allowed to look at three appointments at any one time, though I must confess to having said yes to four, well I couldn’t decide. They were all very different appointments. One in Harrogate two chapels, one in Wolverhampton a new circuit post for a youth minister, one in Hull for a superintendent of a large circuit, and one in Staffordshire again a superintendent of a circuit of nine churches.

So began a week of visiting with my family who one by one dropped off fed up of travelling.  Harrogate was lovely and the manse though a bit small downstairs could just have done the job. It was the churches which felt like I would be starting all over again. One large chapel building but small congregation, with a father and son as stewards, they saw my role as filling the chapel. No God did not want me there! 

Wolverhampton was interesting as there was no manse to look at because it was a new role. It felt like ‘you can have any house you like’ but things were all a bit vague. Based at a so called large church, with a history of being a ‘large church’. They were looking for another minister as well and it became clear that if they did not get a minister I might end up doing two jobs. In fact they did not fill either posts. When I asked what would happen some pompous golf playing man retorted ’what not fill a pulpit of this size’ he clearly was living in cloud cuckoo land, beside I had spoken to the caretaker as we were shown round and was told the real size of the congregation. It’s sad, but true, membership and attendance still bears no relation to each other in places. But again we could not see ourselves living there as a family so it was always going to be no. Now panic can begin to set in. Would we ever find somewhere? So when we visited Hull it felt like this has got to be it. The challenge was enormous. Large circuit, large ministerial staff that had been led by a super who was hopeless and rude. In meeting folk it felt good, I felt I handled the interview with about 20 people asking me questions well, but we had still not seen the manse until the end of the day. When we got there in the dark it became apparent why. Inside it was awful. The layout, the maintenance everything was useless. As we drove away I knew we couldn’t live there even though I was attracted to the job. 

So we made our way to Staffordshire only one daughter with us now, the other two had given up. We were late due to traffic but spotted our contact standing on the side of the road waiting, he looked like a Methodist. Taken to the home of one of the circuit stewards for refreshments and then into the church through the main doors which was a winner. Immediately I could see myself leading worship in that space. 

Then off to the manse, ignoring the old people’s choice of decor, it was a winner too. A good size family home and though the garden was small by its layout we could change that and open it up. The trip round the circuit to look at the other churches, and they were just typical Methodist chapels some in good repair others not so good. Meeting a colleague who had been at college with me was a bonus, and bit by bit I began to be clear in my own mind. It was however still a struggle to determine did I want to go to Hull if they invited me (mind you would they change the manse) or go to Wolstanton which felt right. It was only when as I was coming down the stairs back at home the next day I had this overwhelming assurance that I needed to go to Wolstanton, which was where God wanted me. In the end Hull didn’t want me and they didn’t change the manse so I wouldn’t have gone anyway.

It is not just about the minister moving. It is the family as well. Children move school and leave friends behind. A wife gives up her job and so an immediate loss of income, usually more than ministers. This is no joke when moving costs you in so many ways. Getting three daughters through university on a minister’s stipend is not easy. Without some funerals in the early days of ministry we would have more than struggled. 

So minister and congregations need to be aware of the real strain and stress on the family. This is why ministers no longer feel able to move just anywhere, we can’t afford to. So a wife loses her job, leaves friends behind and a house that was home. The family find themselves in a strange land knowing no one, and in reality not having had the choice about the house because it comes with the job. So circuits don’t be surprised if ministers have certain expectations about the manse, they have every right to do so. 

Then if you have children be prepared for the trauma of leaving friends behind, settling them into new schools and having to watch the tears. Try going into your circuit leadership team meeting bright and cheerful when your eldest has just told you she sort of hates you for making her move to a new place, and begin at a new school knowing no one. And if like me you have three children you get it three times. So the choice to move has to be made wisely and it has to be worth it. And don’t forget the unseen, unmentioned expectations placed on the children of the manse. That they will of course go to church. That they will be lovely and well behaved. That perhaps the wife will go to church. That she will stand at the door and shake hands at the end of the service. That she will go to the women’s meeting and sit amongst 70-80 year olds when she is only 30. So hear it loud and clear, get real this is the twenty first century. You are inviting a minister to serve not their family. Yet even when we visited Wolstanton a place we loved. One of the circuit stewards asked what my wife would do?  I had to firmly remind them that she was not part of the package deal.

We were to spend twelve on the whole happy and fulfilling years in Wolstanton but the time came when I knew that I had done all I could. I was tired and I needed a fresh challenge. So again a period of discernment which led us to feel we should work in an inner city context. You would have thought that would have been easy to fix, but like everything about the madness of Methodism, the right sort of appointments were not around the year we were due to move. Now we were part of a system where the role of the chair of district was key. So they directed you to look at one appointment at a time. The first trip was preceded by a phone call ‘you have been seconded to us’. Something told me this was not going to be a good visit. It turned out a disaster.The visit was badly handled as I had to insist on meeting people. The manse was a disgrace and no way would I have taken my family to live there. It was not really an inner city appointment. However I must have been on good form, my wife was convinced I wanted to go there, until to her great relief as we drove out of the place I said ‘well we are not going there’! 

So we had to go into round two. This led us to an appointment in Sheffield. Everything was okay apart from the fact the manse was not in the inner city. In the end it turned out there was another manse in the right location and so we said yes. So when I wrote this chapter we had been living in Pitsmoor, the name which conjurs up fear in peoples mind if you mention it in Sheffield, for seven years. It was a wonderful place to be. Multicultural, interfaith, inner city issues all we could have hoped for. The hospitality of our Muslim neighbours was beyond words. The manse had to be renovated from top to bottom before we arrived. We had the joy of transforming our fourth garden from a waste land to an oasis. It may not be every ministers delight, but at the very least ministers could keep a garden in order! We in fact spent 14 years in Sheffield before we knew it was time to retire two years early after thirty-eight years in circuit ministry.